Thursday, May 31, 2007

The History Channel new Show" The States" on Utah and the Mormons

   History channel has new show called the states where each week they profile several states and tell about it's History , Landscape . local culture etc. This last week they did Utah. Highlights they talked about were Mountain Meadows Massacre, Polygamy and the Utah War. They also mentioned that 64 % of Utah is Mormon and this is 15% of Mormons Worldwide. Utah also has 2.2 million residents.
     It is good to see things like Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Utah War being included in the history of Utah, these are things the Church will no longer be able to keep hidden.

Tuesday, May 29, 2007

Brothered by the Missionaries Twice last week

Don't they get it NO means NO, I had was harassed by Missionaries getting by mail Wednesday night and my door was knocked the next day. I think I need a restraining order.

Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Inside report from Missionary Department - by cricket

Recently I spoke with a missionary department staff person (female) who told me the following:

The most missionaries serving was 62,000 about 5-7 years ago. Currently there are about 52,000 out and about.

Of these 2,800 are "older missionaries" and 13,000 are sister missionaries.

About 5% of missionaries are on some form of psychiatric medications for depression, moods swings or anxiety. On average more sisters than elders are on psych medications.

About 20 elders a year have a psychiatric break down (either become psychotic or suffer dibilitating depression) and most do not return to their missions.

The missionary department works much harder at stabilizing and maintaining the elders than the sisters with psychiatric problems in order to keep them out in the field. On average more sisters return home early with psych/emotional problems than elders. (no percentage given)

An elder may be returned home for psych treatment for up to six months and then sent back out the mission field.

On average missionaries in South America demonstrate more psychiatric problems.

The reason for decline in overall missionary numbers is due to baby boom demographics, etc. They saw the decline coming and tried to prepare for it.

Note: This was the best info I could get from this person without them becoming suspicious. She was not in a position to cite actual reports or studies. Rather, these were her impressions from working in the department the past few years.

She seemed to think that prospective missionaries with severe emotional problems are being screened out better thus preventing them from entering the mission in the first place.

So there you have my "return and report from my labors in the Church Office Building day."

Friday, May 18, 2007

Answer to TBMs "The only reliable source for information about the Church is the Church" augment

TBM (True Believing Mormons) always say . the only reliable source for information about the Church is the or the Missionaries, This is insane it like sayings the only reliable source for information about the Used car you are thinking about buying is the oily Salesman who is selling you the car, and his manager. The Salesperson and his dealership will not tell the truth about the car they have an agenda to get your money ,and unload the car the car on you. You should not check Carfax to find out that the car has been in 5 accidents, you should not ask your good friend the mechanic who fixed this car after all the accidents and says it is terrible shape. You should not trust the former owner of the car who could never get it to start and had nothing but trouble with it. No the only reliable source of information about the car is the Dealership and the salesman who are hoping to unload the lemon on you. Of course only trusting the salesman is insane, there are many ways to check out the condition of the car without letting the salesman play you for a sucker.

The LDS missionaries and have one purpose to sell Mormonism ,they have an agenda they are not unbiased reliable sources. The LDS have a doctrine called "Milk before Meat" to justify telling lies and partial truths about the church to potential converts. Mormons are trained to deflect questions to the ones they want to answer. If a person wants the truth about the Mormon Church they must ask all sources , including ex-members, unbiased books , so called anti-mormon internet sites. The LDS salesmen are the last people to tell the truth about the lemon they are trying to unload on unsuspecting converts.

Wednesday, May 16, 2007

How things work in the church . . . by Some Lady from RfM

In the beginning, there was The Plan
And then came the Assumptions.
And the Assumptions were without form,
And the Plan was without substance.

And eventually darkness was upon the face of many members and they spoke amongst themselves saying, "It's a crock of shit and it stinks."

And those members went unto their Bishops and said,"It is a pail of dung and we can't live with the smell."

And the Bishops went unto their Stake Presidents saying, "It is a container of excrement and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it."

And the Stake Presidents went unto their Area Authorities saying, "It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide its strength."

And the Area Authorities spoke among themselves, saying to one another, "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong."

And the Area Authorities went to the Apostles saying unto them, "It promotes growth and it is very powerful."

And the Apostles went to the Prophet saying unto him, "This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigor of the church with very powerful effects."

And the Prophet looked upon the Plan and said it was good, and the Plan became Policy

Friday, May 11, 2007

YouTube video site online

I have posted copies of my videos on

Thursday, May 10, 2007

Worst experience at the MTC from RfM

I am going to start reposting things here that are really good or that I find very meaningful to me. This is from the Recovery from Moromismism board or Rfm

Subject: What was your worst experience at the MTC?
Date: May 10 11:14
Author: Lee
Mail Address:

A week before I went to the MTC I wanted to cut my hair so I used an electric shaver but I forgot to put the clip on! I ended up looking like a skinhead! The second I got into the MTC I was pulled aside and threatened for being rebellious and I was told “the MTC will break you!” by the arrogant leader. “But,” I said,” the barber made a mistake, I don’t want hair this short!” and he only smiled patronizingly and let me go. Then during the weekly teacher interview I was also harassed about my short hair. I again explain the reason but they only looked at me like I was lying. I was even threatened that if my hair didn’t grow out by the end of two months I wouldn’t be allowed to go with my group! I would be held back and forced to wait until my hair was the proper length. (Of course my hair grew back but I only had to get a haircut once in two months).

The MTC has such a creepy feel to it. I disliked the MTC – it reminded me of a re-education camp used during the Cold War. It was 10 times worse than the mission field. Everybody always talked about how wonderful it was but I truly felt like a prisoner. We had to study 12 hours a day and rarely had time to even breath, relax or study what we wanted to. They pushed us so hard in the languages classes and I was a slow learner so I was labeled dumb. Many of the “Elders” were immature Happy Valley style Mormons who giggled at silly Mormon jokes and then suddenly became serious to cry about their testimony.

Anyway, it was only until after the two months that one teacher took me aside and say “I’m sorry that I misjudged you because of your short hair – you’re a pretty nice guy.”
That was the only closure that I got.

So, what was your worst (or best) experience at the MTC?

Subject: One of my worst moments in life (adultish or childish)
Date: May 10 11:43
Author: Duder
Mail Address:

I was the only one awake in my room. In my room, we had real trouble because we stayed up so late. After 3 or 4 days of almost no sleep, I was the only one who got up with the alarm. I stumbled into the big group shower to see if I could wake myself up.

For those who haven't been, the MTC has classic locker room showers (at least my dorm did). I think there were three big columns with four showerheads sticking out of each. Thus, if it was crowded, you're pretty much bumping into other dudes while you shower, and you almost always have another naked fellow in your line of sight. Even for guys who aren't shy, it's a pretty odd experience.

For some reason, our showers were plagued with some sort of flies. They usually congregated near the posts by the walls. That meant I had a choice to make. Since I was the only fellow in there, I decided to opt for the center post - where I would get absolutely no privacy, maybe a bit more wind, but no flies.

At this point in my life, there were few things I enjoyed more than a nice long shower. Unfortunately, one thing I enjoyed more was masturbating. I'd been as good as I could leading up to the MTC. The prospect of no women for two years was weighing on me - especially since two of my teachers were quite foxy. After about 10 minutes in this warm shower with no interruptions, I began to wonder if I shouldn't just release some tension. I began to wonder if I wasn't throwing away my youth.

As I was arguing with myself, I heard someone else come into the bathroom. I thanked heaven I was saved. For a moment, I was convinced that God was going to help me stay righteous. Wonderful.

What happened next has scarred me forever. My new shower mate began singing. I don't remember what he was singing, just that it was loud and rather fruity. Then, he undressed in front of me, and asked if he could join me at the center post. I thought this was a bit odd, but the fly business really was gross.

Just as he was getting started at the shower, I caught sight of his penis. It was a monster. Until that moment, I had considered myself reasonably well-endowed. This guy made me afraid for his wife.

He resumed singing. His voice echoed all over the place. Then, we were joined by another missionary. Turns out, the two were both singers. They started to harmonize with each other at the top of their lungs, naked, next to me.

"Grandma's Feather Bed." I still shudder each and every time I hear the song.

Anyway, there have been several times in my life where I've realized those two goons are probably perfectly righteous fellows who could not have been happier than at that moment.

I was miserable. I'm pretty sure I don't belong in the celestial kingdom. Well-hung harmonizing bastards.

Subject: Meat gazer. n/t
Date: May 10 17:33
Author: KimberlyAnn
Mail Address:

Subject: I tell you I had no choice
Date: May 10 17:54
Author: Duder
Mail Address:

It was like the basilisk was coming out of the Chamber of Secrets. I froze.

Subject: The feeling that my roommates didn't like me... n/t
Date: May 10 11:46
Author: Wanda, a.k.a. "Eve"
Mail Address:

Subject: Re: What was your worst experience at the MTC?
Date: May 10 11:50
Author: Crathes
Mail Address:

While I was in the LTM (I am old!), my comp had to go the dentist. While waiting with him, instead of studying the discussions, which was on the agenda for that time slot back at the ranch, I studying the Bible. I was not studying Time Magazine or anything else. Just the Bible. When we returned, I was asked what I had done with the Lord's 1 1/2 hours. I said, with confidence, that I had studied the Bible. I was yelled at for a good 15 minutes that I was to be studying the discussions, that I had been told this, or at least I should have known that is what I was to be doing. I was asked if I would be disobedient every time I was not under the direct supervision of a leader, etc., etc. What Bull!

Subject: Here are mine.
Date: May 10 12:00
Author: Apostate D.A.
Mail Address:

1. Waking up every morning an extra hour early to read the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith history, to get that testimony of Joseph Smith that I was lacking. It never came. After a while, I stopped waking up even more early and figured that I was just not hearing the spirit right.

2. Watching a group of missionaries go into a fist fight over a basketball game and feeling very dissappointed, because everyone should be more spiritual. People were very competative.

3. Realizing for the first time how poor I was growing up when meeting the Utah mormons. I grew up in Idaho, and we were very poor, but I really didn't know it. Some of the guys in my group, in fact, most of the guys in my group, were very rich. One rolled an SUV that his dad gave him, just for fun, and bragged about it. My family was too poor to every even drive an SUV.

4. Watching all the guys struggle with whether to repent. Slowly, one by one, we broke down and went to our Biship to confess.

Subject: Re: What was your worst experience at the MTC?
Date: May 10 12:10
Author: hollowman
Mail Address:

Eight dudes farting in a 10X10 room, serious air quality issues.

Subject: Was anybody else expecting a dance?
Date: May 10 11:55
Author: Duder
Mail Address:

I don't mind saying, I was a pretty good-looking guy when I went to the MTC. I was also very comfortable talking to women.

One of the things that tripped me out about the MTC was that so many of the sister missionaries were very pretty. I figured it was just because I was so incredibly horny, but there were some pretty girls there. Several times, my companion reported to our district that I was flirting with a sister missionary. When we were set loose to "golden question" other missionaries, I only went for pretty girls.

After a few weeks, I realized that I was half-expecting some sort of dance. I was pretty sure that at some point we'd all be taken to one of the huge assembly areas, given a little speech, then the lights would dim, balloons and crepe paper would appear, and Spandeau Ballet would start blaring from the speakers.

Subject: I got kicked out of class at the MTC once
Date: May 10 11:57
Author: racer
Mail Address:

I got kicked out of class and had to sit in the hall for 2 hours for quoting Arnold Scharzenegger's famous line: "I'll be back." It's been so long I don't remember the context behind me saying it, but I was a good kid, so it had innoncent intentions. I didn't swear, I didn't blaspheme, all I said was "I'll be back". The teacher flipped out at me for quoting a line from a rated "R" movie. He said I totally ruined the class by causing the spirit to leave with my quote which came from a "R" rated movie. He asked me what the Savior would think if he was in the classroom and I quoted a line from a "R" rated movie.

I told him that I didn't think the Savior would care one way or another since I said nothing offensive. He then asked me to leave the class and wait in the hall until it was time for lunch.

My MTC experience wasn't too traumatic, but I felt I was in a concentration camp and I felt sorry for those foreign language guys that had to stay for a couple of months instead of 3 weeks.

Subject: Hehehe... you were one of those 19 yr olds I loved to hate ..n/t
Date: May 10 12:41
Author: Wanda, a.k.a. "Eve"
Mail Address:

Subject: OMG, that was so funny I spit out my coffee!! n/t
Date: May 10 15:04
Author: shadowgirl
Mail Address:

Subject: Best time of my mission....
Date: May 10 12:17
Author: jerichomagic
Mail Address:

I went to Japan, and loved Japan. Hated the work, but had a lot of fun. In the MTC, I remember getting a list of rules, maybe 30 rules or so. The only one I didn't break was making out with girls. Along with a few other missionaries, I snuck out of the MTC many times, went to get pizza, at at Wendy's, got a haircut at a real salon, drove a friend's car with my companion's girlfriend with us in the car, hung out at BYU. Got caught once climbing a fence to leave by another missionary. He asked if I had permission to leave. As my coat was caught on the top of the fence, I told him that I had permission. He just said OK and that was it. If I had followed all the rules, the MTC would have been the worst experience of my life.

Subject: THE FOOD! ugh! (sorry for yelling)
Date: May 10 12:31
Author: tigerbiter
Mail Address:

Some of it was palatable, like the fresh fruit, salad and the cereal, but that other crap... gag. I lost 15 pounds in the MTC because I tried to eat as little as possible. MTC food made the grade school green and pink hot-dogs of my youth look delicious. I think my problem was that my mom was a damn good cook, and MTC food paled in comparison.

I actually had a really good time at the MTC, some of the people were asses, a number of guys in my district were crazy (we called one guy "prophet murrow" that's how looney he was). Plus I had a really cool MTC comp from So-Cal.

Subject: Yeah the food was nasty. I pretty much lived on Crunch Berries at the MTC. n/t
Date: May 10 12:51
Author: racer
Mail Address:

Subject: Hurting my Thumb playing football in the dorm
Date: May 10 12:53
Author: Primus
Mail Address:

and then getting chewed out by the Branch President for playing football in the hall. Yeah, you idiot, I learned my lesson, thank you! Can't you see my thumb is the size of a hotdog now!?

Subject: Gym was a joke too...
Date: May 10 13:11
Author: Primus
Mail Address:

In my group we had 2 State Wrestling Champions, and a couple other High School wrestlers. I wasn't a wrestler, but I was an avid walker and runner. Anyways, pretty much all of us were healthy 19 YOs out of High School.

So we are all sitting there in the morning BSing with each other, and I guess we got on the 'gym instructors' nerves.

He walks up and goes...

"Quiet down!" We ignore the guy and keep gabbing.

"Alright 15 Push-ups!" He demands.

OH NO 15 Push-ups!

We all look at him and start laughing, and one of the guys says...

"Do you want me to do that with the left arm or the right arm?"

And I said...

"Uh, we're adults dude, not high school students. Don't treat us like kids."

He turned red and stomped off.

Subject: I had a psycotic, suicidal companion in the MTC.
Date: May 10 13:05
Author: Rubicon
Mail Address:

I was one of the guys who never had a testimony and went on a mission to find it. I had just finished a semester of college and was frustrated because I had no idea what I wanted to do. I felt serving a mission would help me to know myself better and gain a testimony.

All was well and I was excited about serving a mission until I went to the temple for the first time. The initiatory and endowment cerimonies creeped me out big time. I can remember sitting in my parents car riding back home from the temple feeling like I had been duped and had made a huge mistake. I honestly can say, what made me go into the MTC was social and family pressure. I was like the bride that went through the marriage; even though, she knew it was the wrong thing to do because canceling everything the last minute would bring shame and embarrassment. Knowing what I know now, I should have bolted after my temple experience but like many in the church, I couldn't shame myself to do the right thing. When my mission president jokingly said,"Nothing like finding out you were lied to when you finally get out here." The mission president was right. He knew how the church opperated, it sold the mission experience to young people growing up and then when we got out in the mission field, we found out we were duped but it was too late. Going home now would bring discrace from the family and home ward. It was my real first education on how the church really opperated.

So I entered the MTC wanting to never be there. I was assigned a companion that was really psyco. I knew there was a problem when he was drawing a decapitated head in a bird cage in his scriptures. The dude wouldn't shower and went downhill quickley. The MTC was making him crack. The branch president said I was responsible for this guy and oh yeah, were making you district leader and you are in charge of getting everyone's mail. I never could do what I went to the MTC for because I was too busy running my companion to the MTC councelor and then down to psyciatrists on the BYU campus. I wasn't getting the mail and the other missionaries were pissed at me. I was missing the eating times in the caffateria. Then I was told my companion had been sexually abused growing up and he was too far gone to serve a mission. I was told this guy's MTC experience was to help straighten him out so he wouldn't be a multigenerational abuser himself.

Ok. Later the guy tried to kill himself. Oh yeah, they made me in charge of making sure all the missionaries got to the mission field . Thank's. I looked so bad at the airport my mom and aunt didn't recognize me! My mom wanted me not to go on the plane but the MTC had already removed me mentally from my parents. What a huge mistake! I was given a second chance to bolt by my own mom!

We missed a connecting flight due to our incomming flight leaving late. Had to switch airlines and ended up arriving in mission at 4:00 AM. We were chewed out by the mission president because his wife had made us a fancy dinner and we missed it. The guy was an asshole from the get go. He never got better either.

The MTC for me was a living hell. It was worse than any other place I have been, Seriousely.

Subject: MTC=Mental Torture Center
Date: May 10 13:12
Author: Rubicon
Mail Address:

Even my mom mentioned she hated how they took control of her children right in front of her. It was some authoritarian saying, "Ok, missionaries go out this door and parents go out that door." No time to visit, it was some church egomaniac dictating to families, the MTC now owned the missionaries ass.

Subject: Rubicon, it sounds like your Mom isn't too far in the cult...
Date: May 10 15:03
Author: runner
Mail Address:

Is she a TBM? I bet that was hard on her as well. I can't imagine going to the airport to find my son, looking like hell, and then letting him get on the plane.

My oldest is 10 and I hope he chooses to not go on a mission.

Subject: Re: What was your worst experience at the MTC?
Date: May 10 13:48
Author: Bob Loblaw
Mail Address:

I went on a mission to get a testimony, like many of the missionaries out there. (side note: a lot of pressure was put on me to only go if I had a testimony, not to go just to get one. You are of course asked if you have a testimony to get a temple recommend prior to going. SO..... since many admit, after "getting" a testimony, that they didn't have one when they left, that means that many of the missionaries LIED to get into the MTC, and then spent two years PRETENDING they believed, telling others that they should get a testimony as well. Isn't there something fundamentally wrong with that? But, I digress) I didn't have one, and figured this was my shot. Since I was pressured to go, I may as well try to get a testimony while I was out there.

Anyway, I hated the MTC. It was like a prison that you had to pretend you wanted to be at. My companion was an ass. He would draw pictures of knights fighting satan with a CTR shield, or of Joseph Smith meeting a sasquatch-like Cain (mo myth! I had to have that one explained to me, and even then thought it was shit) And he got up early every day just to have time to read more scriptures. He once told me that he had an appointment with the branch president to talk about something that was bothering him. After his interview, the branch president asked to talk to me, and told me that my companion had come to talk to him about me, that he thought it was wrong that I joke around at a spiritual place like the MTC, and wanted to talk to him about it. The branch president was nice enough about it, but it amounted to him ratting me out for trying to deal with the shitty MTC stress by cracking a few jokes! I wanted to beat the shit out of him! What a prick!

Also, there was always this obvious difference between the Utah Mos and me. Like, in class a teacher would ask one of us to pick a hymn, and he'd be like "348!" and everyone would go "I love that hymn!" and I was like "what the hell is 348?" and would have to look it up. I felt like I obviously didn't belong. And, I didn't. So glad to be out of that cult, and so glad my daughters will never have to experience that kind of stuff.

Bob Loblaw

Subject: Re: What was your worst experience at the MTC?
Date: May 10 14:08
Author: Wandering
Mail Address:

My worst experience happened five times. I didn't serve a mission, joined the church at 19 and was in love, sure wasn't going to take off for two years for something I barely understood. But then I got to send five of my children off to missions. Every time I walked into the MTC and saw how cold and brutal those people were as they told us not to walk down the side of the stupid hallway that our missionary children were to walk down, I thought something doesn't feel right here. Don't they realize I just spent 19 years loving and caring for these precious kids and they expect me to just let them take over my son or daughter and I'm supposed to be the obedient cult member and just be quiet. I hate the place and the whole brainwashing project that it represents. I didn't feel the spirit there or God's presence. Just a cult-like smothering atmosphere. And It scarred some of my kids and I hope my grandkids don't have to experience it.

Subject: My MTC Easter experience...
Date: May 10 14:19
Author: Deconstructor
Mail Address:

Here's my big MTC experience:

This is one of my true MTC experiences, and looking back, was when I learned what "keeping and feeling the spirit" was really all about.

I was in the MTC during the start of the Gulf War in early 1991. Before the war, the MTC had an open-door policy for families and relatives hand-delivering gifts to missionaries in the MTC. But then the church decided to use the start of the war as a pretext to set a ban on accepting any hand-delivered care packages from families to MTC missionaries.

I was an AP in an MTC Branch at the time the new rule took affect.

(As a sidenote, I learned later that someone started a business just down the street from the MTC, that would take family care packages and for a fee, "deliver" them to the MTC. For security reasons, said the MTC rule, the MTC would only accept packages from couriers but not from family members.)

There had been a long tradition for years that every Easter Sunday, a certain member family that lived directly behind the MTC, would make tons of cinnamon rolls and hand them over the fence to missionaries. My MTC Branch roomed in one of the buildings at the back of the MTC, closest to this member family's yard, which shared a fence with the MTC.

My Branch President pulled me in the Sunday before Easter Sunday and told me that under no circumstances should anyone accept cinnamon rolls from the family. He told me that the tradition violated the new rule against hand-delivered packages and he would hold me PERSONALLY accountable if anyone in the Branch broke the rule and got a cinnamon roll. He called on me to get up in Sacrament Meeting and talk on obedience and warn everyone not to take a cinnamon roll "lest we lose the spirit."

The Branch President also insisted that I remind each missionary individually about the rule and admonish them not to go near the MTC fence on Easter Sunday. At the time, I was a TBM and took the whole thing to heart, obeying the Branch President's every word in order to "keep the spirit."

Easter Sunday came and went and I thought we had made it through the day without incident. Looking out my window, the family stood at the fence with plates of cinnamon roles and nobody dared go near them.

Three days later, the First Counselor in the Branch Presidency pulled me out of my language class for a "Personal Priesthood Interview." He escorted me to the Presidency's office, where the other counselor and the President were waiting. They were all furious. Apparently one of the missionaries in our Branch was caught eating a cinnamon roll in his room the afternoon of Easter Sunday. He got caught because someone else had snitched on him in the mandatory weekly letter confessional to the Branch President.

The hard thing was, the presidency was furious with me, not the missionary who had eaten the cinnamon roll. They ripped me up one side and down the other - for not being a true leader, disappointing my family and losing their trust. I felt like a piece of sh*t, seriously. They quoted scriptures on obedience, priesthood authority and losing the spirit.

Worst of all, I felt like I had committed a terrible sin. I had repented for some things before my mission, but the guilt I felt for this incident was almost unbearable - worse than the guilt I had felt for other more serious "transgressions" prior to my mission. This guilt over the cinnamon rolls was the most horrible, incredible guilt I have ever felt in my life! I really feared that I had lost "the spirit" for good.

At the time, my only defense was that I didn't understand how accepting a cinnamon roll from a member family violated Christ's spirit of love. But the First Counselor cut me off, saying in a raised voice, "Elder, I don't think you can even feel the spirit anymore!"

They immediately released me as AP and gave the calling to my companion - a fate I felt was close to death. As part of my repentance, they had me write a one-page paper on why I had failed as a mission leader, which was given to my Mission President when I entered the mission field. In my written confessional-of-sorts I wrote that I had disobeyed one of the Lord's Commandments and therefore, had lost his spirit and "amen to my authority as a leader."

That was the low point of my mission, for once I left the MTC I felt like I had "the spirit" again. I went on to prove my obedience and priesthood worthiness in the mission field, baptizing in all of my areas and serving in several leadership positions.

It wasn't until after my mission, going through my papers that I stumbled across that confessional paper I had written in the MTC. I was so angry reading it again, realizing for the first time that they had manipulated my faith and desire to be righteous. All that guilty torment self-loathing over a cinnamon roll that I didn't even eat...

And then it hit me, the whole Mormon thing was a guilt trip! They could make me feel guilty for anything they wanted. Those pangs of guilt weren't coming from God, they were coming from my religious conditioning. I had let church leaders program my conscience!

If my faith in the Mormon gospel meant the leaders could make me feel guilty about cinnamon rolls, then it meant they could make me feel guilty for anything. They used my faith to pull at my guilt strings, and they were doing the same thing with things like tithing too! The whole evil control process of the church unraveled for me.

That day I decided I would never let anyone play the guilt trip game on me again. I would decide for myself, based on true ethics (not external obedience or "keeping the spirit"), what of my own behaviors were wrong or right. I would never again turn that guilt control over to someone else - especially an institution as manipulative as the church.

It would take several more years before I would eventually leave the church, but that decision helped me through all the other guilt headgames my family tried to play on me for "falling away." I hadn't fallen away, I had freed myself from their guilt control.

I see petty rules come from the prophet against earrings, tattoos and beards and wonder how many people out there are suffering the "cinnamon roll guilt-trip" as my wife now humorously calls it.

Subject: I guess you committed a sin next to murder..eeh gad! nt
Date: May 10 14:57
Author: Primus
Mail Address:

Subject: Re: My MTC Easter experience...
Date: May 10 15:13
Author: PM
Mail Address:

My grandparents yard connected to the mtc and they would give out goodies to the missionaries. One day when we were wandering around I saw them working in their yard and I called over to them to say hi and they waved but would not come over to talk. I hated them after that experience. When everyone talks about how family oriented the church is I just laugh. All they do is drive wedges in family relationships. I used my mission as a 2 year vacation.

Subject: Dealing with all those whiny, tattle-tale, selfish babies..oh, uh...I mean associating with all those other fine Elders! 8^D n/t
Date: May 10 15:12
Author: flattopSF
Mail Address:

Subject: Re: What was your worst experience at the MTC?
Date: May 10 17:27
Author: Flash
Mail Address:

I am too old to have gone through the MTC but I did spend a week in the mission home in Salt Lake City before going off to Virginia to be a door to door salesman for Joe Smith in 1977.

In that week I was there, I saw the cruelty of the church manifest itself as the missionaries were separated from their families. I had never seen so much anguish and sadness erupt in so many people all at once when the families were told to leave. Since I was from California, I had already had my own tearful goodbyes 2 hours prior. How gut wrenching was that scene to see so many people suffer so and while this ugly scene was transpiring, I saw the mission home leaders smile with a sanctimonious glee that made me want to deck them on the spot.

I can honestly say that by the time the week was over, my testimony was gone. All that I was taught that a mission would be was trashed. I can still remember the day where everyone was gathered in one room and the GA speaker asked what our jobs as missionaries was to be. This one elder stood up and said “…to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ and bring people into the church.” The response from the speaker was, “NO Elder, you are totally wrong. Your job is to not teach the gospel but to tract and baptize.” That elder looked so humiliated and stunned. I was stunned. This is not what I came here for. From that moment on, I kept asking myself, “I gave up my girlfriend, educational opportunities, my car, my good life to do this shit?” I wish I had the courage to just walk out the door right their and then but at 19, I was too much of a coward.

The experiences in that mission home and what I experienced for the following 2 years, showed me what the Mormon church really is: A money hungry corporation with a thin veneer of a church on the outside for tax purposes.

Others here have said how they saw a love/hate relationship the church has with its missionaries. I agree, and I am convinced that the Mormon church is the only church on the planet that persecutes its own missionaries. How grateful I am to be out of that mess now for 17 years.

Subject: Being ridiculed for being the only virgin in my dorm room
Date: May 10 18:35
Author: Demon of Kolob
Mail Address:

And I thought fornication made you unworthy to serve a mission

PBS Documentary comentary now online

go here to listen or download the Podcasts

Monday, May 7, 2007

New Videos posted

New Videos posted on my Daily Motion Site. Thanks to Paul M. for these.

Tuesday, May 1, 2007

The MORMONS PBS documentary.

How bad does your organization have to be when a biased program(in your favor) still makes you look bad.The PBS documentary is not a competly unbiased look at Mormonism, it is has a pro Mormon slant, yet it is still having a devastating impact on believing Mormons.

I have recorded a special podcast with fellow Exmo Scholar Samuel the Utahnite. This will give two different takes on the PBS show and should be a very informative and interesting show. It will be online soon.